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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 18, 2008 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Our faith can also blind us

Let me first say that I do not know everything and my opinions are just that. Take them for what they are worth. I never submit or speak of 1995's but the day in history is significant in a way. The second set possesses the infamous Wharf rat. It is a total disaster and sad on so many levels. Even still, there are people who want to put a spin on it and say "garcia was experimenting" Or "he was trying to do a Dylan thing" Look, I'm not looking to bash or put down the dead, ect I'm trying to be objective. By the time the tour hit NJ many folks knew it was the end of the road. For those who didn't see it yet, I think this Wharf rat sealed the deal. If you have not heard this be prepared.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd95-06-18.aud.2543.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: swamprabbit Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I am not defending this show and especially not the Wharf Rat - it seems as though Garcia definitely dropped the ball on this one. However, I do bring a slightly different perspective to the final years. I saw the majority of the shows I was lucky enough to witness in 1994 and 1995. So these are actually the glory years for me. AS a result when I witnessed these shows I wasn't comparing them to some rockin' show I saw in '79. I was simply judging them on their own merit. It was readily apparent that Garcia was suffering and I predicted early in 1995 that he would not make it through the year. However, there was a certain pathos and despair in the music from this period that simply cannot be found in any other era. It was an emotional experience watching someone slowly die on stage. I walked away from several shows during this time feeling quite disappointed. However, there was always at least one sparkling gem at every show. I remember going to the 3/31/94 Atlanta show which was an almost complete disaster. Garcia seemed totally out of sync. However, at the end he pulled out a stunning Standing on the Moon. I remember thinking at the time that I could have seen any number of bands that would have put on a much more competent performance than what I had just witnessed. However, no one could have made me feel the way I did during that one song. That was what kept me coming back (that and the hope that Garcia would snap out of it). So flame away ( I have thick skin and don't really care what you think about my opinions anyway) but just remember that for the younger crew - we took what we could get and just a glimpse of that cosmic truth was so much better than none at all.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 18, 2008 10:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I hear what you are saying. In some ways this site is a curse because you have access to all the shows and compare them on a night to night and year to year basis. To be honest I saw shows in 94 that i actually liked. Because I didn't tour from town to town i didn't realize the inconsistency of the band at the time. When I started to dabble in 94's I found most shows pretty weak. I didn't feel that way back in 94 when i saw a good shoreline run in the fall and thought, "hey, they are on tonight" or "they still got it."

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 18, 2008 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

i still kinda like that wharf rat, but have only listened a few times. whether he was experimenting of just totally fucked, i like its weirdness. I had dropped out of touring by 91, so thankfully i didnt have to witness the demise firsthand.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 18, 2008 3:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

That's exactly what I was going to say Dire, allmost word for word. I think the arrangement is kinda cool, even if it was a completely unintential trainwreck which I'm sure it was. Face it, they never really mixed it up once, as Hunter said, the song was down so I'm sure it was due to sloppiness. I never listen to shows from this era anyway though.

And like you, other than two lackluster shows in 92, i didn't see the band after 91 when they were still strong. That's the irony for me - when I moved to where I could no longer see them I was often depressed about not getting to see shows. If I had been seeing them I would have been depressed about the condition of the band.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Jun 18, 2008 12:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I remember Garcia talking extensively into the mic during the extended intro, as I was standing no more than 35 feet away from him at this point. Obviously he was trying something different with this Wharf Rat. It might not have come off totally perfectly at the beginning, but it's not the worst Wharf Rat I've heard. And it's better than almost any version of Crazy Fingers ever performed.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 18, 2008 12:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

[PK: Yikes! You don't like CFingers? Actually, I always preferred Peggy-O, and somehow think of the two in the same spirit...Though I can appreciate a good CF, it never really got me going either.]

Excellent thread, all. Loved reading the stories.

Like some others, I cannot bring myself to listen to the shows/songs listed above, esp WRat.

I stopped going to shows in 82, and have only listened to one show post that date: Dire's 9-18-87 (I think that's it?), and a couple of tunes from the 90s that came highly recommended.

Suppose it's a good thing for me to stay obsessed with 68...

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 18, 2008 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Visions of Johanna I hope?

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Poster: wineland Date: Jun 18, 2008 3:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Johannablowme.

If you listened to the 95 Wharf Rat like I did, then you'll need some mojo to right your ship. Take a listen to today's Dew from 83. Picture perfect.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd83-06-18.set2.aud-silberman.miller.21741.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 18, 2008 3:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

That was funny...good one, WL...

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jun 18, 2008 1:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Can't help it, this whole thread made RUN DMC "Your Blind" pop in my head.

The moral to the story may not be clear
And the only way to catch it is to lend an ear
Stop frontin so hard, why don't you peep your car
And your goals in life may not be far
Because these words I say are meant for you to hear
So if you bust these facts you will persevere

You're blind
You're blind, And you can't see
You need to wear some glasses like DMC
You're blind, And you can't see
You need to wear some glasses like DMC
You're blind
You're blind, And you can't see
You need to wear some glasses like DMC
You're blind
You're blind, And you can't see
You need to wear some glasses like DMC
You're blind
You're blind, And you can't see
You need to wear some glasses like DMC
You're blind
You're blind, And you can't see
You need to wear some glasses like DMC

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 18, 2008 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Hey Rev, why don't you tie the laces of those Adidas?

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jun 18, 2008 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I would but they are Chuck Taylors

;)

Is suckiness even a word?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 18, 2008 2:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I can remember when those were $9 a pair: four choices--white or black, low or high.

What a time...hmmmm...It was 1968! Seriously...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2008-06-18 21:40:40

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Poster: patkelley Date: Jun 19, 2008 7:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I like the song itself, I've just never ever heard them perform a good version of it. I've heard some passable ones from 89-91 period, but not anything that impressed me. I would challenge anyone to find me a version where Garcia nails the lyrics and doesn't hit at least two serious clams during his solos.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 18, 2008 12:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Are you trying to see how many incensed replies you garner?

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Poster: UJB Date: Jun 18, 2008 8:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I was too far away to see that, but thought the extended intro was kind of interesting. Somehow I don't remember noticing the train wreck where they had to fix the tempo. At the time I actually enjoyed this show and went home reasonably happy, unlike a few other shows like 3/17/92, 6/14/92 and 8/3/94. On tape I don't think the show is all that bad. Jerry sounds reasonably coherent during most of it, and not completely lost and struggling like on some other shows of that era.

John

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 18, 2008 12:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

your obviously kidding?

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 18, 2008 10:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

My "life changing" moment came at Irvine in '86 when Jerry left the stage in the middle of Terrapin. I was close to the stage and remember Bobby looking around in apparent confusion when he left. He and Brent then tried to save the situation by playing Don't Need Love. This was a sad and shocking moment for me. Until that day, I had always felt that, even on their bad days, the band would always put in an honest effort, and I could justify all the expense and effort I had put in to get to the shows (I lived in Boulder Colorado at the time and had, like many of you, travelled extensively across the country for years to attend shows). This show was an eye opener for me and left such a bad taste in my mouth that I scaled back my attendance for shows considerably and never really travelled to see the band again.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd86-04-13.schoeps.eD.13513.sbeok.shnf


This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2008-06-18 17:51:14

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Poster: the_full_monte Date: Jun 18, 2008 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

That's a an excellent point and at least partially what I'm getting at (or trying to, anyway). It's one thing to see Jerry or the band as whole have an off night, or be disappointed in the set list or what have you. It's something else entirely to see him/them simply not even give a shit. If you're tired and don't want to keep doing it, fine...but have the balls to tell the rest of the folks in the organization that it's time for everyone to take a break and ween themselves from the touring cash cow.


I'm not going to get into exactly when they should have pulled the plug but I agree with the post that says they stuck around a little too long.

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 18, 2008 11:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

wow, I had never heard that story before and many of the reviews echo your feelings...though one person does seem to think that it was "planned" that way...

they were "working on putting the So Far video together which also only featured Lady With A Fan"

anyway, I can't listen now, but how was black peter after that mess?

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Poster: the_full_monte Date: Jun 18, 2008 8:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

Agreed- this is a really sad and painful thing to listen to. I hear what you're saying about opinions- every era has its followers, every show has its champions - but I honestly think anyone who thinks this atrocity (I'm speaking of the "Wharf Rat" primarily) was intentional is really just deluding themselves about how utterly limp the band had become by this point. This is a moment of pure exhausted ineptitude for Garcia- a musical train wreck that was the result not of experimentation or risk taking, but simple inability to play. This show, and most definately the second set, are lacking in every way: in spirit, in effort, in execution. Borreal '85 gets trashed a lot, but it sounds like 8/27/72 next to this pile of shit.

I'd be careful, though- beat up on a show too badly and the Don't-Hurt-My-Feelings-About-Jerry Police come swarming in, wiping away the tears, making excuses, flinging accustations of hate-mongering, whimpering about "all the good times Jerry gave us" and in general trying to squash any harsh criticism or dissent from the Temple of Jerry.

Everyone hear loves this band for a variety of reasons- not the least of which being Jerry's ability to totally kick ass when he's even partially dialed in - but this show his a HORRIBLE EMBARASSMENT and an AUDITORY DISGRACE, the kind of show people who hate the Dead put on as Exhibit A.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 21, 2008 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

You called it. I was not predicting it myself, but you were right (read below, far below).

Interesting.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

I, for one, won't bash anyone expressing an opinion, especially when they can back it up. This is indeed one of the sadder moments in their illustrious career. Very unfortunate way to end things. As I've said before, I always thought that the Dead (w/ Jerry) became the Jim Rice of music at the end. Just hung around a little too long trying to regain some of their old glory, despite the all to obvious signs that Jerry simply could not do it any longer. I can't help but think the rest of the band was all too aware of this downward spiral, but could not bring themselves to say what needed to be said out of reverance to their leader. But, like you say, this is purely my opinion.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 18, 2008 10:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

out of reverence - or out of a need to keep the cash monster going?

Also, how was his playing during this time period (93-95) with JGB and/or Grisman? I've heard some say he was fine in such settings, but from what little I saw at the end, it was truly pathetic.

I left the shows in Charlotte that year (95) disgusted as Jerry was essentially nodding out and seemed clearly befuddled. It was sad and tragic and led me to not listen to the band's music for a handful of years thereafter, not really rediscovering the joy until landing upon this site.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

are you saying Jerry was hitting into inning ending double plays at the end of his career? If you are then you would be correct.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

And Pig Pen would be Luis Tiant, of course. Except Luis didn't drink himself to death.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Blind Faith and the Unbearable Suckiness of this Show

I guess the entire band could have been Bill lee at many points of their career

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 18, 2008 8:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

no thanks, I was at a worse moment, the Althea from 05-19-1995, trust me on this...ouch...

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

It's funny you bring up Vegas. it was the first time I really got pissed at the dead. My thought was "lazy, effortless, short sets in the hot heat after I trekked through the desert" I left in a bad mood and made the stand that after Shoreline I was done. If they came to LA great but that was it. Once I got to this site I re-listened to the half step from night 2 and was sad more than pissed. To hear him fumble and be lost was just crushing.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jun 18, 2008 9:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

05-21-1995 was a good show, mostly consistent and Unbroken Chain was nice to hear...great Ramble on Rose and So many Roads, even Jack Straw was more than competent...05-19 was the worst show I saw from the Dead, Standing on the Moon was the only saving grace...05-20-1995 had a good Morning Dew, that was about it...

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Jun 18, 2008 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I saw my last show in 1989, saw the JGB a number of times 90-92 when he was always great, and I have heard some second-rate stuff from the later years but I've never heards anything like this. Sad is the only word. I'm sorry that I missed seeing Hornsby, but glad that I was very,very far away in 1995. RIP you mad genius.

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 18, 2008 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I have to agree with that...I saw the majority of my shows during my Pitt days, 77-79, and then some sprinkled through the 80's...but when the summer of 95 rolled around I had the feeling, like many, the end was near so I made several attempts to travel from dallas to shows and in hindsight I am kind of glad that none of those plans became reality...

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 18, 2008 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

I was at the show - but fortunately left as soon as Jer left the stage after eyes - however, it was easy to tell right from the gitgo of Bertha (plus you had all the reports from earlier stops) that it was a bad summer.

But there were bad "tours" sprinkled throughout the 15 yrs or so that I saw them - one tour there in 83 or 84 was a train wreck. I did leave giants stadium that night saying this might be over - but could'nt he just as easily cleaned up a little, a few transfusions, a couple months rest and came back for another avg decade? we all know by the 90's he just wasn't as good as the previous 1/4 century, but there were still plenty of good moments up through 94 anyway.

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Poster: BryanE Date: Jun 20, 2008 4:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

What is the BFD?

I won't deny that there's something odd going on there with Wharf Rat, and it's clear that it isn't everything he would have wanted it to be. And maybe he was trying to find the groove that typified the song, but it just couldn't come to him. It's been documented ad nauseum that he was deeply mired in some serious personal problems at that point--his days were numbered, for cryin' in a bucket--so what do you want to do? Kick him while he's down?

But who's to say he wasn't intentionally experimenting with a new arrangement? And with more playing time performing it as such, there is something there that they could have really made to gel quite nicely.

As far as his commitment to the vocal, though, it sounds to me like he was there 100%, as much as a man who is on his last legs can be. There ain't a damn thing wrong with the "But I'll get back" bridge. Old Jerry was giving everything he had to give, and if you can't hear that, I think you're just trying to find something to bitch about.

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Poster: veblen Date: Jun 20, 2008 6:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

"But who's to say he wasn't intentionally experimenting with a new arrangement?"

so I hear there is an island in ny for sale for some beads...

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Poster: BryanE Date: Jun 20, 2008 7:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

In other words, it would be you saying that he wasn't? The gift of clairvoyance must be such a blessing.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 20, 2008 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Like I said, our faith can blind us. Not to mention I don't recall any "bitching" Matter of fact I do believe I said "not trying to bash the dead". But why bother actually reading and interpreting the post correctly?

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Poster: BryanE Date: Jun 20, 2008 7:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

Give me a break. Mask it with whatever disclaimer you want, but so much of the party line on this forum is to find fault with the Dead wherever any kind of opening can be found. Essentially what you're saying is, "This is bad." Of course it's bitching. What possible point other than that could one have in putting something up that does nothing more than detract from their efforts? You're free to do so, but don't expect everybody who reads it to gobble it up with a damned spoon. Haven't you got anything better to do than to pull up a show merely to point out what you think is wrong with it? What are you accomplishing by doing that? Providing some kind of insight? I don't think so. It's self-serving and arrogant. Take potshots all day long at 'em, but I, for one, am here to say that just because someone says it, doesn't necessarily make it so, especially when it comes to the Fraternal Order of LMA Grateful Dead Forum Naysayers.

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 21, 2008 9:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

There is a section called "Day In History" so by pointing out a somewhat historic and well documented event in GD history is out of line? Whatever pal. Why don't you send a list of what topics are acceptable and more importantly send your censorship no-no's to me and everyone else so we don't talk about something that might send you into a tizzy. God forbid we do that. You know the bitching that's taking place is coming form you. All I hear is that this is a "GD forum" and we should just stick to that. So when people do that it's still not good enough. Take your wharf rat and put it on loop. I really don't care, again that was in my original post, have at it. But for me I know the difference between the genius and crap. If you want crap fine, that's what the site is for but don't expect me to tell you it's mind altering or jerry was experimenting.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 21, 2008 10:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Our faith can also blind us

That'll teach you...Monte predicted it too.

I figure that we have to have objective input on all aspects. If that's not in "the spirit of the DEAD," I don't know what is. Jerry et al. were the FIRST band to consistently "self evaluate" and often spoke of "we sound like shit, you shouldn't have had to pay for it, we hope we get 'it' right and so on" (I paraphrase, but their own self critiques were part of what made them special).

To expect anything less from their fans, 13 yrs after their passing, is, at the least, inappropriate.